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2nd Season Battlestar Galactica - Sacrifice - 5 star poll - SPOILERS
(click on the names to see responses)
Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:25:17 -0800
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George Avalos...
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"Sacrifice"
2-10-06 BSG
Earl Grieda...
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I liked tonight's episode, but the bar scene was to much. A clean bar, only
slightly crowded, for an apparently affluent crowd, exists 7 months after
the biggest catastrophe that could happen to people and still have survivors
is stretching it even for me.
The main theme of the show, Is a Cylon life worth a human life, was covered,
but not as much as I would have liked. I liked the last scene where Sharon
was staring at the ceiling. I had the feeling she was happy with the way
things turned out.
Secret agent Starbuck was a bit over the top. I wonder if her bad shot was
just blind luck, or hangover related?
Anyway, I need to watch this episode again.
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IsaacKuo...
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4.5--awesome episode! Absolutely perfect use of Ellen
Tigh.
Lizard...
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No, a perfect use of Ellen Tigh is to test the airlocks. :)
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Isaac Kuo
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5 stars (Golgotha)
0-1 stars (Tenochtitlan)
Tapio Erola...
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2.5
Kinda weak. Kidnappers' motivations were two-dimensional and somewhat
unbelievable. Still, given Fleet circumstances, psychotic breakdowns
are to be expected in disproportionate numbers.
Starbuck blew her recon mission, which is kinda unsurprising given
she's not trained for such situations. She *should* have asked one of
the marines who might have more experience but this sort of thing is
kinda to be expected from fighter jock with a large enough ego.
The Two-gun John Woo imitation was kinda overblown, though.
Friendly fire happens. Especially in complex situations rapidly
spiraling out of control.
Bonus points for realistic atmosphere sensors on spacecraft and
interesting use of dry ice. Though how the effect could be maintained
for long enough with contents of a single drink was kinda unreal...
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Giovanni Wassen...
Chris Basken...
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3. Kind of a yawner. The Boomer-switch was obvious, but it was an
intelligent ploy since the bad guys wouldn't have necessarily known
about there being two of them. It was saved by them having the balls to
Kill Bill, though.
Chris Basken...
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Let me revise that to a 3.5.
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dm...
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2.5 stars.
IMHO, probably the worst episode so far. Just didn't buy it from
word go. The general gambit could be good: Adama is forced to
decide between protecting his cylon asset at the risk of his (and
Tigh's and Roslyn's) extended families, all held hostage. Some
potentially strong screenplay (the Negotiator phone conversations,
Kara's reluctant admission to Adama, Billy goaded into heroics).
But I just didn't believe any of it, it was too rushed, and
eventually, didn't care much. Except for the surprise.
Oh, and the c-Sharon (c for corpsicle) bit was so obvious, and how
could Sesha not have picked up on it?
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Cyde Weys...
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2.5 stars. It wasn't anything new or special for me. I saw them
retrieving Sharon's body from the morgue from about thirty minute's
distance. The only thing that threw me was Billy's death, but not in a
good way.
Ten Quidado...
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Both the body and Billy's death were givens by the first commercial break.
Terrible ep.
bob smith...
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I dont think you can say a semi-main characters death is ever a 'given'. 99%
of the
time the character tries to be a tough guy, is shot, but recovers.
Still, not a very good episode.
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Beth...
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Maybe a Billy copy is somewhere out there ...Billy as a Cylon? Maybe
that is what Dee sensed, that Billy, like T-Sharon, is a Cylong
programmed to believe he is human!
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CatPanDaddy...
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Not sure I understand... not in a good way how?
Cyde Weys...
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Am I supposed to throw my arms up into the air and go "Wow" anytime a
character on a TV series is killed off?
Frankly, as deaths go, Billy was very minor. I want Lee Adama dead.
He's been injured waaaaay too many times now. And that WOULD throw
people off.
Will...
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The finale was very good, with very strong acting all around. The
circumstances leading to Billy's death was sad, considering how he tried to
save someone who shunned him. Lee Adama is one of the main characters and is
not going anywhere anytime soon.
CatPanDaddy...
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Barring the Tasha Yar Death Scenario, no regs die. I guess it was time for
Billy to take the Denise Crosby way out.
GarondoMarondo...
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Just watched the ep and was saddened to see Billy die, I really enjoyed
his scenes with the President and liked watching his rize in power. Of
the 3 vulnerable characters in the bar, note I knew Lee Adama wouldn't
die but the other 3 were all fair game, I will miss Billy the most.
Killing Tigh's wife would probably have made him drunk 100% of the time
so I guess that was out of the question and they still might want to
play with the idea of her being a Cylon, but killing what's her face
would havce been sad but not that great a loss which is probably why
Billy had to go.
Earl Grieda...
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I think his wife makes him drink more than "normal" for him. Remember the
episode where she showed up and proceeded to get him drunk for the dinner
with the President, Adama, and Lee.
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I give the ep a 4.5.
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Garondo Marondo!
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mvp...
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The big difference in the death scenes was that they didn't
telegraph it was going to happen. In that Star Trek TNG
Ten Quidado...
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It was telegraphed by the first commercial break.
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episode, every ad for the show for the entire preceeding week
said "This week, we kill one of the crew. Guess which one?"
while showing the tarbaby zapping Tasha.
I was very fond of TNG in general, but that was astonishingly
lame. Much better to do it like in Galactica.
David Chapman...
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Have we forgotten the trails for Rez Ship 2 already?
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Maybe he's another model of cylon.
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Barry Margolin...
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In these days when "Lost" sets the standard for high-quality drama,
isn't any character killable?
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Kweeg...
cloud dreamer...
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4.3
I especially liked Adama's decision to pick Starbuck over Lee when he
found both were on Cloud 9.
Chris Basken...
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What decision was that?
ANIM8Rfsk...
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They told him Starbuck and Lee were on the ship, and he immediately said
"Get me Starbuck" -- didn't even consider calling Lee. And he didn't know
Lee was a hostage; they were just reading him the list of people on board.
I liked that too. He knows Lee's not to be trusted.
Stephen Adams...
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Pretty easy choice - the one who agreed immediately to kill Admiral
Cain and who is personally loyal to Adama (only flying back to Caprica
when she felt betrayed/lied to) vs. the one who drew a gun on the XO
when the XO was following the (then) Commander's orders. There's way
more, but that sums it up right there. If "someone needs killing" you
send the ice man, not the angst man.
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Stephen Fairchild...
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Starbuck's disobedience yet again caused trouble. She was told to send
someone in to reconnoitre the bar but she went in herself with weapons.
Typical Starbuck, and she got away with it but for two dead marines and
another hit of angst.
P.S. will someone please shoot Ellen Tigh for giving Starbuck away.
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cloud dreamer...
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Adama was told that Lee was on board Cloud Nine...then he was told
Starbuck was there and he didn't flinch. He asked them to contact
Starbuck, not Lee, in order to get the marines organized in order to
storm the lounge. Adama didn't know Lee was a hostage at that point.
So, deep down, when the poo poo hits the fan, he still calls on
Starbuck. The question remains...is it a point of confidence in Lee's
abilities or is Adama just being a dad and trying to protect his son.
I believe it's the former.
Chris Basken...
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I wonder if he's going to regret that decision. Apollo actually thought
very well tactically in this case and it was Starbuck's friendly fire
that nailed him.
cloud dreamer...
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Yeah. Very interesting and ironic that Starbuck was responsible for
Zac's death and here she almost kills his other son after he expressed
such confidence in her ability. Added to that, I'm curious to see how
they handle Lee's second brush with death.
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ANIM8Rfsk...
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Uh - Apollo was a total screw up. What did he think he was accomplishing by
going out with a hostage and surrendering the minute anybody said boo?
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erilar...
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OK, I watched it "live"(instead of taping it) last night, so what do I
think? Well, there were fewer boring stretches(aka Baltar/6). They
actually killed the terrorists(YES!). They killed Billy, but I never
particularly cared for the character that much anyway. I still don't see
why Apollo didn't look for a way out through the back alley while he was
there, but he's never impressed me as all that bright anyway. Starbuck
the hotshot(pun intended) apparently shot a friend instead of one of the
killers with the guns. Adama did NOT cave in to the terrorists. More
pluses than minuses this time.
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Electric Frog...
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2 This was obviously the budget saving episode
jphamlore...
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I don't begrudge their using footage from Bastille Day. (I think Ron
Moore was serious about this on his podcast.)
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jay...
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4.8. Down from the usual 5 only because Billy's death
Atlas Bugged...
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Ditto. Just another moment of mentally noting that Moore does whatever he
wants to in support of whatever story he's telling that night. Since he
usually succeeds in making that story compelling, I implicitly agree to
forgive him his ADD.
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(like that of Cain weeks ago) had the feel of another
easy solution to a difficult problem.
Earl Grieda...
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Are you kidding? What difficult problem is death an easy solution?
Will...
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How dare you question the wisdom of Mark Twain !!!!
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jay...
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The writers have created the Lee-Dee thing, and had to
get Billy out of the way. Killing him off is the easiest solution
(to say nothing of an *extremely* overused cliche).
Will...
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And what shows do you write for, Mr. Chandler?
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Andrew Venor...
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To roughly summarize what Ron Moores mentioned in the Podcast.
The actor Paul Campbell is in demand now for work in movies and other TV
series. David Eiks and Ron Moore decided to release him from the show
so he could pursue those roles. Killing Billy was a decision they made
because the way he was written and played up to this point it would be
too out of character for him to quite his job as the Presidents aide to
go work on the farm ship.
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EGK...
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0. I thought it sucked. Basically to for an episode like this to work, you
have to care about someone. BG is populated by a lot of people who I
couldnt care less if they live or die. Not a likable one in the bunch.
Brandons of mass destruction...
Stephen Adams...
ANIM8Rfsk...
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In fact, you're ROOTING for Lee to die. And Ellen Tighe.
KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL!
EGK...
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Haha. I've actually been wondering lately if Moore is creating such an
unlikable bunch so the Cylons end up looking like the "good guys" when they
finish the job they started.
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Aaron Bergman...
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More importantly, it helps not to completely telegraph the ending in the
first two minutes.
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Night Spirit...
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4.9 Lots of character growth. I wonder what Tigh will say when
Sharon gives birth it will hard for him to say she's just a machine.
Chris Basken...
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Hard for Tigh? Not a chance. He'd space them both.
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Zombie Elvis...
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Billy's death came as a surprise to me and elevates this episode
beyond an ordinary outing.
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Araxen...
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1, I guess I've watch too much 24 because I'm sick of the "hostage"
plot. I love this show to death but the only retaining thing I got from
this show was Dee's clevage.
The Dee/Kara/Adama love triangle is meh.
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the other Eric...
Stephen Fairchild...
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Probably because Adama thinks he knows what Sharon is trying to achieve. By
saying yes she would either be lying or ratting out her fellow cylons.
Either way he could no longer trust her. If she had gone utterly over to
the human side she would have offered the information much earlier without
needing to be asked.
I think Sharon is trying to unite cylons and humans in peace and mutual
respect. I think Adama suspects as much and in order to achieve that goal
she first has to win over Adama. Step 2 would be to win over one of each
cylon model. D'Anna Biers' news reports are vital for this. Do you
remember the reaction of the cylons in the movie theatre? I think we will
see Sharon go on the charm offensive in S3. Baltar will be working to the
same agenda from the opposite direction.
Sharon needs the cylons in the fleet in order to achieve her goals. I think
Adama understands. He seemed quite pleased when he put the phone down
after speaking to her.
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3.0
The story wasn't that good but it had it's moments and the cast did
some good acting.
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John Doe II...
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2*s out of a maximum of 3 on a five scale
George Avalos...
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So 2 is to X as 3 is to 5 where X is your score? ;)
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Will...
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4.5 stars - completely believable story, given the circumstances on BSG.
Some interesting characterization among some key characters, namely Billy,
Apollo, Starbuck, Roslin and Adama. Very good acting again. Very moving
ending. This series is head and shoulders above any other sci-fi series and
is one of the best shows on TV.
CatPanDaddy...
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Another amazingly wide spread of scores this week. Sometimes I think everyone's
Will...
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Nahhh, some people know quality when they see it, while others.....well,
they just watch.
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just guessing! ;-)
Chris Basken...
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I find peoples' patterns interesting. Many who liked this one didn't
like another episode, and people who liked that one didn't necessarily
like this one.
At least we're consistent.
Anyone notice Boomer's tacit "yes, I'm fracking with you" admission tonight?
Chris Basken...
Chris Basken...
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Okay, right. Not to Adama -- prior to that answer in _Sacrifice_. So
Chris Basken...
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I can only hope they'll revisit it. Soon.
ANIM8Rfsk...
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Besides, you'd think that would be the first question they'd ask ANY Cylon.
Chris Basken...
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Why wouldn't you expect a Cylon to answer? Baltar got a number out of
her by threatening the Chief's life. Seems like psychological torture
works.
I have an idea. "Boomer, we're going to abort your baby unless you
identify the Cylon agents." She'd sing like a bird.
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Will...
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Now that certainly adds to the debate, lol
EGK...
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In all seriousness, I'm actually curious who among the main characters
people find to be likable or people you root for? I don't have any. When
erilar...
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Well, I certainly don't have any among the main characters, either.
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the show is plot driven I can like it. When it's character driven as in
episodes like this, I don't.
Stephen Adams...
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I guess I like my heroes flawed. :-) When you think about it, it's rare
you find a hero who doesn't have a serious flaw (sometimes they are able
to hide or disguise those flaws). So in that sense, we're seeing reality.
When you think of the strain this group of people is under, it's also
no surprise that alcoholism, violence, wild mood swings, serious changes
in personality, etc, etc happen, and fairly regularly.
So, who do I like? Starbuck for one. Amazingly enough, I *hated* this
character from day one because they made it female. I'm over that feeling
now. :-) I also like Admiral Adama. And to a lesser extent, Tigh and
Baltar. The latter two "like" means - interested in watching, and with
regard to Baltar, I do not mean 'root for' in any way shape or form. :-)
Now, this is not to say that I hang on their every word or action, but I
do like watching them and do 'care' (in so far as one can about a fictional
character) about them.
Look at Tigh this week - he was pushing the same world-view as the hostage-
takers. I loved that. The RTF is not, nor is the fleet, in 'lock-step,
jah mein fuhrer' mode behind Adm. Adama and Pres. Rosalyin - and even those
two aren't in agreement. Tigh expressed a common opinion in the fleet
that has to be aired, that the Cylons ARE machines and that Sharon IS
fracking with Adama. Heck, she admitted the latter.
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I'm not comparing this version to the original series because it's like two
completely different shows. On the other hand, the original series had
characters like Starbuck who were charming. I can't say that for anyone in
the current cast. Actually, I think it's ironic that Richard Hatch's Tom
Zerek comes the closest in this version considering how he was as boring as
Jamie Bamber when he played Apollo.
The only characters I've found myself liking are the Chief and Helo but only
while he was on Caprica. They haven't done much with them in season anyway
erilar...
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The Apollo character seems destined to be boring. And I agree that
Zarek has more charm than many of the characters we're apparently
supposed to care about. Of course, the character he's playing SHOULD be
able to charm 8-)
jim phillips...
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Yep--both Adama and Roslyn were far from the centers of power,
but Zarek was the head of a resistance movement. He's probably
the most politically savvy person in the entire fleet.
jphamlore...
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But Roslin had the advantage of having pillow-talked with the Colonial
pre-attack master of politics, Adar.
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and their characters have gotten worse.
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Will...
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So now you are watching the show for one character? The storylines are going
nowhere but hey, Sharon is on, so I'll watch, lol
EGK...
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And you're accusing *ME* of trolling? Geezus. Do you come up with any
posts that aren't cliches and strawmen?
Chris Basken...
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FYI, Will is a troll. If he hasn't already, he'll also accuse you of
moving your goalposts and backpedaling.
But if you play it right, you can get him to plonk you. Of course, then
he'll continue to argue with you "through" other people. It's really
pretty amusing.
EGK...
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Ahh, thanks. I've only posted to this group a few times over the course of
erilar...
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It's a shame, too, because they at least WERE among the few characters I
found interesting. Another I find more interesting than most of the
"good" characters is the current Boomer.
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the series. I can already see what he's doing. He trolls me, claims I'm
not backing up my point of view than finally claims I'm a troll. It's a
standard tactic on Usenet and frankly, I'm too tired to bother with him.
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Will...
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Yawning constitutes a lack of oxygen to the brain. You do an awful lot of
that.
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her admission in that episode was new info to Adama. The question is,
is he going to incorporate this new information into how he deals with her?
Will...
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Actually, a standard troll tactic is to offer criticism continuously, offer
Will...
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Actually, you are too intelluctually vacant to bother. Why do you watch the
show again? Because you like Sharon? lol
EGK...
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What are you, about 14? Or do you just act like it on Usenet?
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no evidence of the opinion and claim everyone else is off his/her rocker. If
Will...
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And the answer to my question was????? If you can't answer a question pose
another question, right? Waiting.....still waiting......zzzzzzzzzz
EGK...
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It's been answered already . Catpandaddy had no problem understanding it. I
can't help it if you are unable to comprehend.
CatPanDaddy...
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the shoe fits......
Chris Basken...
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Which is precisely what Will did to me in the _Deer Hunter_ thread.
Then he plonked me when (I suspect) he realized he had no actual point.
EGK...
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I've given him additional information about why I viewed that episode and
the characters the way I do. Also why I still watch. He seems to alternate
in pretending I didnt answer his question or saying the information I gave
him changed what I originally said.
Night Spirit...
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In no particular order
Baltar conflicted on his loyalites and trying to discover who he
really is.
Tom Zerek He's more dangerous than Baltar and is a grand master in
Bruce Stewart...
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If you listen to what Roslyn has said right from the start, it's fairly
obvious she's been in the political trenches for long time, for instance
she was in Adar's campaign for mayor.
In addition on seeing there was a problem with the Lee/William relationship,
she started to exploit that from the start.
Bruce S.
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politics.
Helo his sense of right and wrong leads him into trouble but he's
loyal.
The Chief another guy that allows his ideals to over come his better
judgement but in the end he comes through.
Starbuck she has a lot of emotional baggage but still magages to do
her job.
Adama A hardass warror that knows his limitations. He smart enough
know when to change his mind.
Ros She was totally out of her element in the beginning but she's
proven to be a fast learner.
Apollo he's stuck in his father shadow and can't seem to get out of
it. He's grown tired and want out but his loyality to his friends,
friends, and crewmates keep him going.
Sharon she wants to be accepted for who she is and not for what she is
her concern now is for her child and the man she loves is driving her
at the moment.
Six she is totally loyal to the cylon cause yet her love for Baltar is
almost as strong. she rationalizes her love is all part of the plan.
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Obviously he likes to troll people then claim they're the ones doing it.
Now he's got his panties all in a bunch because I said he was a hypocrite.
Apparently that's name calling when I give a word definition for how he
acts. :)
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Will...
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Just using your own words against you, I know it hurts.
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